ipod123432
New Member
Isn't my invisible avatar awesome? And If you see me post, I'm nevar on!!! Hahahaha.
Posts: 33
|
Post by ipod123432 on Jul 25, 2008 18:42:21 GMT -5
Wow, look at all this planning, this discussion. . .it's so awesome! I feel like we're the rebel alliance or something. Everyone has my complete moral support by the way. Unfortunately, I kinda need my monies right now:( MMO tales had monies? Where's my monies? o.0 Moral support!! ;D
|
|
vicelin
Full Member
Oh, shat.
Posts: 389
|
Post by vicelin on Jul 25, 2008 20:05:35 GMT -5
Wow, look at all this planning, this discussion. . .it's so awesome! I feel like we're the rebel alliance or something. Everyone has my complete moral support by the way. Unfortunately, I kinda need my monies right now:( Moneys is for noobs! Just spend it! Gonna loose most of it at some point, so spend while you have it, that's my motto :3
|
|
|
Post by guosim on Jul 26, 2008 19:26:43 GMT -5
Uhmmm, so. . . how far are we on the plan as of now? xD I think we got everyone possible, still some peeps out on Profil3 and Basil though. And uhm, we might have to skip step two and three if Mr. Basil refuses. I think we got someone to host MMOT (do we? ). So uh, basically we need to ask for the code? o.o And then we're set right? RIGHTTTT? Correct me if I'm wrong =(
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 26, 2008 22:20:45 GMT -5
I've been trying to get Mr. Basil to respond for quite some time now. That's the main hold up right now.
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 26, 2008 22:26:21 GMT -5
Here's my latest message to him:
Mr. Basil, I have sent two messages to you. I asked a question about whether or not you'd be willing to supply the code for us seeing as we had a means to host the site. I also offered the alternative of you hosting and us paying. Whatever your decision, a reply would be nice. Even a "Hold on, let me think about it" would be better than the cold shoulder. Ignoring people only gets them frustrated and can make them take more radical action. I'm sure you don't want that. I hope you understood how much this community meant to us and how serious we are about the matter. Please understand that we are not simply going to give up and forget about it.
|
|
|
Post by MasterCheeze on Jul 26, 2008 22:29:44 GMT -5
He's probably gonna ban you, Tarheel. He's just like that sometimes. >.<
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 26, 2008 22:31:25 GMT -5
He's probably gonna ban you, Tarheel. He's just like that sometimes. >.< I hope he's not that immature. Did I say anything banworthy in that? If he does ban me, I think we need to become a tad more aggressive in our tactics.
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 26, 2008 22:37:32 GMT -5
so basically he either wrote the code himself, bought software to help him, or paid someone to do it for him, he's not going to stand on a corner handing out copies of it for free I don't see why not. We don't intend to make profit off of it, and it's not like he's going to use it again. It won't be competing with his site in any way, shape, or form. Where's the harm? He said he likes communities, so shouldn't he help this one out?
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 26, 2008 22:39:50 GMT -5
No it's a tactic I'm borrowing from Martin Luther King Jr.. You show the alternative to handling us right now. In his case, he said if you don't deal with us, you're going to have to deal with radical extremists. In our case, we say if you don't deal with us now, you're going to have to deal with us later, and we won't be so civilized then. It makes the option of dealing with us now much more attractive.
|
|
vicelin
Full Member
Oh, shat.
Posts: 389
|
Post by vicelin on Jul 26, 2008 23:05:21 GMT -5
No it's a tactic I'm borrowing from Martin Luther King Jr.. You show the alternative to handling us right now. In his case, he said if you don't deal with us, you're going to have to deal with radical extremists. In our case, we say if you don't deal with us now, you're going to have to deal with us later, and we won't be so civilized then. It makes the option of dealing with us now much more attractive. I agree. If he continues with the cold shoulder and decides that we're not worth his time, and I see that reply for myself...well, lets just say that I'm really good at being uncivilized.
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 26, 2008 23:14:44 GMT -5
I don't see why not. We don't intend to make profit off of it, and it's not like he's going to use it again. It won't be competing with his site in any way, shape, or form. Where's the harm? He said he likes communities, so shouldn't he help this one out? Because he spent either time or money or both to obtain a tangible result (in this case, the html and php code for the website) that still has value in someone else's eyes (in this case, us). If everyone gave away their possessions after they no longer had a use for them, nobody would have to buy textbooks No it's a tactic I'm borrowing from Martin Luther King Jr.. You show the alternative to handling us right now. In his case, he said if you don't deal with us, you're going to have to deal with radical extremists. In our case, we say if you don't deal with us now, you're going to have to deal with us later, and we won't be so civilized then. It makes the option of dealing with us now much more attractive. I don't think MLK ever said he would espouse violent demonstrations if his demands for civil rights weren't met. Besides, there were already 'uncivilised' responders and radical extremists during the time MLK endorsed nonviolent protest - see the huge riots after the Birmingham church bombings and the Black Panther party. He can gain no more from the coding. It's useless to him. He can't afford to host the site and it's not like anyone wants to buy the site from him. He spoke as if he would have liked to keep it open were it not for the time and effort. Hosting the site ourselves and becoming no longer affiliated with Basil addresses those issues. Trying to sell it to us is a stupid idea because we COULD make our own site if we wanted to, it's just that we'd prefer to use the old one. We're in somewhat of an advantage when it comes to the code. It isn't absolutely necessary, and holds no value to him. He can't charge us for it because we'll decline, so there's no way for him to make money for him. If those textbooks couldn't be sold to a used bookstore or something, I'd sure as heck give them away. That handy thing called kindness can sometimes play a role. About Martin Luther King, here's an excerpt from his Letter from Birmingham Jail: You speak of our activity in Birmingham as extreme. At fist I was rather disappointed that fellow clergymen would see my nonviolent efforts as those of an extremist. I began thinking about the fact that stand in the middle of two opposing forces in the Negro community. One is a force of complacency, made up in part of Negroes who, as a result of long years of oppression, are so drained of self-respect and a sense of "somebodiness" that they have adjusted to segregation; and in part of a few middle class Negroes who, because of a degree of academic and economic security and because in some ways they profit by segregation, have become insensitive to the problems of the masses. The other force is one of bitterness and hatred, and it comes perilously close to advocating violence. It is expressed in the various black nationalist groups that are springing up across the nation, the largest and best-known being Elijah Muhammad's Muslim movement. Nourished by the Negro's frustration over the continued existence of racial discrimination, this movement is made up of people who have lost faith in America, who have absolutely repudiated Christianity, and who have concluded that the white man is an incorrigible "devil." I have tried to stand between these two forces, saying that we need emulate neither the "do-nothingism" of the complacent nor the hatred and despair of the black nationalist. For there is the more excellent way of love and nonviolent protest. I am grateful to God that, through the influence of the Negro church, the way of nonviolence became an integral part of our struggle. If this philosophy had not emerged, by now many streets of the South would, I am convinced, be flowing with blood. And I am further convinced that if our white brothers dismiss as "rabble-rousers" and "outside agitators" those of us who employ nonviolent direct action, and if they refuse to support our nonviolent efforts, millions of Negroes will, out of frustration and despair, seek solace and security in black-nationalist ideologies a development that would inevitably lead to a frightening racial nightmare. He clearly threatened that if "our white brothers dismiss as "rabble-rousers" and "outside agitators" those of us who employ nonviolent direct action, and if they refuse to support our nonviolent efforts, millions of Negroes will, out of frustration and despair, seek solace and security in black-nationalist ideologies a development that would inevitably lead to a frightening racial nightmare." That's as much of a threat as what I said was. I don't see either as a threat, but more of a playing to the audience's fears.
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 27, 2008 0:58:19 GMT -5
He can gain no more from the coding. It's useless to him. He can't afford to host the site and it's not like anyone wants to buy the site from him. He spoke as if he would have liked to keep it open were it not for the time and effort. Hosting the site ourselves and becoming no longer affiliated with Basil addresses those issues. Trying to sell it to us is a stupid idea because we COULD make our own site if we wanted to, it's just that we'd prefer to use the old one. We're in somewhat of an advantage when it comes to the code. It isn't absolutely necessary, and holds no value to him. He can't charge us for it because we'll decline, so there's no way for him to make money for him. If those textbooks couldn't be sold to a used bookstore or something, I'd sure as heck give them away. That handy thing called kindness can sometimes play a role. Well, I'm not trying to insinuate that the man wants to turn a profit on the code, rather that expecting him to relinquish it without a whimper seems highly optimistic, and depending on his kindness after openly criticising him on mmot is an iffy plan. quoting your message so you don't have to scroll up I agree that he relied greatly on his audience's fears to support his message, but here's where MLK's case and ours differs: He says that he "[stands] in the middle of two opposing forces in the Negro community", those who are okay with segregation and those who react violently to segregation. He tried to get them to do something, but to do it peacefully - meet in the middle, if you will. In our case, we are the only group that has approached him. He has no reason to believe that we, who need only one thing before we are satisfied, are a separate party from the rogue cabal of e-assassins who have the spambots cocked and ready, the nsfw urls on ctrl-C. see post 57: The two opposing forces in this fight for what we want are one and the same. And your message reads as an ultimatum, one that will make this extremely reticent man even less willing to respond to us. ON A COMPLETELY TANGENTIAL TOPIC: I've heard good things about both SeaMonkey and Nvu, does anyone have any opinions they'd like to share about these two? He spoke a ton about how he loved communities and he was as sad as us to have to shut it down. If that's really the case, he should love to give us the code. If not, the code is of no value to him, and he hopefully sees giving the code to us an easy way to get rid of us. We play a Jeckyll/Hyde role in this situation. We are both the civilized, reasonable group and the radical extremists willing to devour his site if we don't get what we want. I think he's afraid of it getting out of hand, and suggesting that it might if he continues to ignore us is feeding his fears and will hopefully encourage him to at least respond.
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 27, 2008 13:05:31 GMT -5
In the first PM:
"I would love to have kept the site going. But it was costing too much, there were too many trouble makers (taking up too much of my time) and simply not enough visitors."
In the second PM:
"I appreciate your disappointment. I imagine you enjoyed the site because of its community. Similarly, I started the site because I love communities."
This isn't the first private interaction. Since I had that short dialogue with him, I've politely asked twice about the code and was ignored. I waited a week, and sent that last one.
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 27, 2008 23:13:13 GMT -5
Yeah, people traditionally tire of arguing with me before vice versa.
|
|
|
Post by tarheel91 on Jul 27, 2008 23:55:46 GMT -5
Sorry, that was directed at his (Bogdan's) responses, not yours. I still hold that "... a reply would be nice ... Ignoring people only gets them frustrated and can make them take more radical action. I'm sure you don't want that." will probably be seen as a threat and is not directly comparable to MLK's methods. If that's a threat, then so is what he said. He definitely said stuff a lot more aggressive than that in that letter alone. His tactics were peaceful, but they weren't subdued.
|
|